Read this:
<http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/blogs/politicalticker/2007/05/martinez-immigration-bill-could-save.html>
He is a complete idiot.
If the Republicans pass an Amesty Bill they are going to get creamed in 2008. Period.
Mike Sylvester
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25 comments:
Good timing Mike...I just posted a very similar theme on awb...
Not just dumb....really dumb...
Agreed. Very dumb.
I have absolutely no faith that the government will crack down on border security. Until they are serious about that there should be no discussion of amnesty or "earned citizenship" or whatever.
If you are here illegally then you should be deported - period. I believe that most illegal immigrants are hard working people that just want to try and earn a living in a country economically superior to their own. But as a Democrat I think the lack of immigration enforcement is putting downward pressure on wages and increasing the burden on taxpayers which is directly hurting the middle class.
And a guest worker program? Are you kidding me? This has all the negative consequences of illegal immigration w/o any of the individual benefits of amnesty. This is the worst possible solution. If you don't believe me then ask a country that's tried it - ask almost any German what they think of a guest worker program. It's been a complete disaster for them and it will be for us...
I heard someone on the radio last night say that "immigration is an issue that loses votes for everyone." I think that is correct.
Karen,
It depends how you look at it. Immigration is a highly emotionally charged issue that a lot of people have a stake in. This increases turnout, increasing the number of votes for all candidates. However, it is such an emotionally charged issue that a partisan voter would be likely to cross party lines in order to vote against a candidate who disagrees with him on that single issue.
Robert, I think that the point that the person was making (I honestly don't remember whether a politician or a commentator said it) is that Democrats and Republicans each have deep differences of opinion within their parties about how to handle the immigration issue. You are definitely right that it is a highly emotionally charged issue and people are very passionate about it.
I think a big issue with these "undocumented workers" is all the money they make is sent back to their home country. I read someplace some countries like El Salvador, just gave up printing their own money and use the US dollars since so many people send US money back there. I would think that would mess up our economy a bit.
I agree that we FIRST need to secure our borders.
The "amnesty" issue is trickier- how would we "round up" 12 million illegals? Who will pay for housing them until we send them back? What if they have kids that are LEGAL U.S citizens- are we going to take care of them? Who will pay?
The logistics matter- while Republicans like the idea of sending them all back, they will NOT like the idea of paying for it.
Unless I've missed something (besides the hysterical rhetoric) no body is suggesting we "round up all 12 million and deport them".
That, of course, is logistically impossible.
However, just using our current laws (ENFORCEMENT) methodically and just picking up the freaking phone and calling ICE when a cop has an illegal alien would solve the problem. It's being purposely blown out of proportion.....Within 5 years we'd have located the vast majority just by enforcing the frickin' law...No amnesty necessary, no mass deprtation necessary, just get the politicians (mayors of sanctuary cities etc) to do the job! PERIOD!
It ain't rocket science!!!!!
Parson,
When they send US Dollars back home, that creates additional demand for the dollar and strengthens it. That is actually good for us.
"Secure" is a relative term. You can lock all the doors and all the windows of your house and call that "secure", until someone breaks a window and lets themselves in. You can spend thousands on reinforced doors and windows and stay up late at night worrying if the next burglar has a cutting torch.
Or you can deal with more realistic threats. Some of the people on this blog are worried about rule of law, some are worried about terrorists, some are worried about immigrants taking our ditch digging jobs, and I recall bumping into one guy who was concerned about preserving American culture.
Let's assess our priorities:
1. The President is a far greater threat to the rule of law than any foriegner.
2 It's cheaper and more effective to secure high value soft targets than it is to secure 7593 miles of border and 12,380 miles of coastline.
3. The economy is actually growing despite the president's best efforts.
4. Is a culture that includes "American Idol" worth protecting?
Damn Robert, And you were just starting to make sense too.
That's a shame.
Money that is paid in THIS country but SPENT in Mexico does NOT strengthen this economy...
Jeff,
It helps the dollar's strengh against other currencies. The more places the dollar is accepted as legal tender, the better. Venezuala and Iran are threatening to stop accepting dollars and start demanding euros in exchange for oil. http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1178038676.php
This is going to cause prices to go up. If both Chavez and Iran stop accepting dollars, expect to pay $6 a gallon for gas.
The effect of this is partially mitigated by the fact that other Latin American countries accept the US dollar as legal tneder. Be very, very glad that there are still people who like your money as much as you do.
Robert,
The dollar is continuously being weakened by many factors. The fact that Mexican workers send some back to Mexico hasn't changed this and it never will. Meanwhile the loss of that money has a very real negative impact on this economy...
Jeff,
It's not like they take that money and burn it in a big pile. They buy things they need and the money finds its way back here.
We all can agree that having an imporvished nation next door poses certain problems. You can try to build a wall around the place but the problems will still be there. East Germans were able to sneak past a wall a lot more secure than anything the US is prepared to build.
The long term and permanent solution is to allow Mexicans to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and work for a living.
The problem is the things they need aren't made in America so that money stays in the local area and takes a long time to make it's way back here.
They probably aren't paying taxes on the income they are making here and sending back home.
And what's the impact, of our neighbors bordering the U.S.A?
Do they care? Is Mexico & Canada working with us? One would think,
we'd all work together before a major problem occurs.
Mexico & Canada should think twice
about who enters their country and then entering U.S.A. borders.
Parson,
The legal immigrants are paying taxes on income earned in the US. Its withheld from their check. Many illegals also pay taxes as well. They use a false Social Security number, and then Social Security tax is witheld from their paycheck. Since they can never collect Social Security, they are really getting ripped off while working here. Because these illegals pay taxes, the government has a financial interest in NOT traking them down.
Bobett,
Canada probably is cooperating. Mexico would like to help, but has enough problems of its own.
Robert:
If you travel much to Canada, I think there is pause and re-thinking on who and what may
infiltrate our country. Not much
on border control entering or leaving.
As far as Mexico, as you stated so well, "has enough problems,"
But, Mexico does a fine job of controlling who, what, when, how,
and where people can come & go.
They love to send all the people
from around the world from South America thru Mexico, right here &
now. And the sad fact is the United States is turning a blind eye.
Well, if I had my way, I'd kick them all in the head & and the behind for ...poor judgement.
Jeff Pruitt:
I agree with you on this topic. I am surprised that The Democratic party does NOT understand that this issue hurts wages, the middle class, the poor, and unions.
Parson:
They are not "undocumented workers" they are illegal aliens and criminals.
Kevin Knuth:
The logistics do matter. We should enforce our laws and deport them all.
Tim Zank:
I am with you on the way to enforce it...
Robert:
I do not agree that the President is a larger issue then granting Amnesty to 12 million illegal aliens who are breaking our laws with impunity.
Mike Sylvester
Why is it that no one really sees the bigger picture of what is at work here?
The Mexican government is corrupt and inept, that is what drives the poverty that in turn sends waves of illegals here. Yes, I know not all illegals are Mexican, but I'd bet the majority are. The money going back to Mexico slows some of the poverty there. The Mexican government wants illegal immigration because it slows the Mexican populations' discontent with their own govt. Discontent gets too high, and, oops, we have a revolution, either peaceful or bloody.
Typically, a populist "coup" or election results in a government along the lines of Hugo Chavez, which must scare the Washington elite to death to contemplate a Chavez clone on our doorstep.
The flow of illegals must be slowed or stopped. As far as those already here, I don't really have a good idea on what to do with them. The big question, that nobody is asking, is what will Mexico be in 20 years after border closure?
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