Who does Mark Souder represent? He does not represent me or my family...
HR4437 is an immigration bill that passed the House of Representatives in December of 2005. This bill makes it a felony to enter The United States illegally. HR4437 is a necessary step in the battle to secure our borders.
Indiana has 9 Representatives. The extremely liberal Julia Carson voted AGAINST HR4437. I am not surprised that she would vote against the wishes of most Hoosiers...
The other Representative voting against HR4437 was our very own Liberal Republican, Mark Souder.
I have often heard of Mark Souder referred to as a Social Conservative; I have NEVER heard anyone call him a fiscal conservative.
Mark Souder voted against the Third Congressional District, AGAIN.
Can someone PLEASE tell me why you vote for Mark Souder. Please...
Mike Sylvester
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14 comments:
He may well have been the lesser of the two evils. It just shows that when you choose a smaller evil, you've still chosen an evil.
In a two-horse race, you're going to get this. We need as many good people to run on the Libertarian ticket as possible, to make elected officials accountable. The two parties are winking at each other and not challenging each other nearly enough.
Mike, that bill would have made it a felony to BE a illegal alien. There are an estimated 11 million illegal aliens in this country. The total prison population as it stands is 2 million.
Answer this question very carefully: What do you propose to do with 11 million convicted felons?
I will be happy to answer this question very carefully...
100% secure our entire border.
Then throw them all out and fine employers heavily who employ them.
Impose sanctions against Mexico and make them help us secure our border.
Then and only then, increase LEGAL IMMIGRATION.
Mike Sylvester
The scale of the proposed operation of expelling 11 million people is mind boggling. It would have to depend on how many do in fact leave during the 5 year grace period. Forget the ethical implication for a second, lets talk the pragmatic nuts and bolts of it.
Most business that hire aliens do so because the alien has provided documents that look authentic. If an employer in good faith believes that the alien has the legal right to work in the US because of the documents that the alien has provided, then that is a valid defence against possible charges. Employers that KNOWINGLY hire illegal aliens are only a fraction of those that DO hire illegal aliens.
How many INS agents will have to work for how long to get them all out? This would be a massive undertaking that the federal government is not prepared to take. They are not getting the cooperation that they need from state and local law enforcement. Would it be a violation of state's rights to compel the State of California to assist in the round up?
The fact of the matter is that the new bill is designed to be harshly worded enough to appeal to the electorate as it stands today. (Within 50 years Hispanics are expected to be the majority in the US due to birthrate alone) But the Bush administration has NO intention of enforcing the law to its full letter. You'll have a few arrests for the cameras in the hopes the GOP doesn't lose the House and Senate. And the rest of the illegal aliens will quietly move on with their lives.
How many businesses have you worked at that employed illegal aliens Robert?
I have worked at one employer that employed a HUGE number of illegal aliens (25% or more of the total workforce)...
The business that employed a horde of them knew EXACTLY which ones were illegal aliens... Heck, the HR manager told me which ones were illegal; it was common knowledge...
In fact, most businesses that employ large numbers of illegal aliens have spoken with Federal authorities and know exactly what they are doing; and so do those Federal agency's.
I know of one case where an illegal immigrant was "sneaking" back across the border and got caught. He contacted our comapny and one of our lawyers went and got him; it was NOT a problem. This company spent a couple of thousand dollars, filled out some paperwork, and our illegal alien was on his way back to Indiana...
Heck that Company re-wrote its vacation policy so our illegal aliens could return to Mexico for an extended period of time and still have their jobs here protected. The policy helped them by making it so they had to snaek across the border fewer times...
This is a Company in northern Indiana... It must be much worse down south Robert...
I do NOT agree with your premise that most employers are innocent in this. I do not agree at all. Some are innocent and some are complicit. I can tell you this, any employer that has 5% or more of their workforce as illegal aliens KNOWS that theya re illegal. I can only speak with firsthand knowledge of one Company...
I am not sure if it would be a violation of State's rights if the Feds tried to force a State to round them up if the State did not want to... I would have to think about it... You have a good point there...
I agree with you that they will not enforce the laws; that is sad...
Mike Sylvester
I also have a question on the immigration issue, Mike. As we discovered, our views our similar. However, I am concerned about the "Catch-22" issues here. What about illegals who have born children in the US? The kids are citizens by law, but what do we do with the parents? Are we to split familys? Grandfather some people? What is your take on this?
I'm sure this is but one of several "grey areas" in this discussion.
Sure there are gray areas John!
One of the first things we need to change is making every child born to two illegal aliens a citizen automatically, it is absurd.
I think that unfortunately some families may be broken up. I do not like it; but, I am not the one that snuck across the border and violated our laws... They are...
If someone does not want to break up their family they can always move to Mexico or whatever country they came from together. They do not have to break up their family...
Mike Sylvester
Being born on U.S. Territory should not grant you U.S. citizenship. This arcane law allows us to be invaded legally, our rights diluted and let's face it creates the predicament that John stated: What about illegals who have born children in the US?
It should be easy enough to change the law that requires those born in the U.S. to have at least one parent who is a U.S. citizen as a prerequisite to U.S. Citizenship. If we wait too long, then we may be out voted in our own country.
Souder was right to vote against this bill (did I just say that?).
People say the border patrol needs more money. Over 16 years the border patrol budget increased 10x and the number of illegal immigrants has doubled; not a great return on investment.
Most illegals are hard working people who came here for a better life - criminalizing them the same as drug dealers, armed robbers and other violent offenders will not solve the problem.
Do you really support a bill that says it's a felony for charities, churches or individuals to give any food, shelter, etc to illegal immigrants?
Do you really believe 700mi of fencing will stop the problem?
Should refugees who have been convicted of petty theft be banned from receiving legal status?
Should nobody from China, Vietnam, or Cuba be allowed legal status?
Should the visa lottery program be disbanded?
This bill was full of foolish items and any congress member should feel proud to vote against it...
You're going to throw out millions of workers? What's going to happen to the economy when you do this? That is flat out irresponsible and irrational.
The agricultural economy in California would collapse as it already has major problems.
I have had coworkers who were from other countries. If there were here illegally, they did not confide that to me.
I propose this to address the state's right issue.
Allow state's to grant residency to certain non-citizen's of their choice. This way a person could be a California resident but also be a non-US citizen at the same time. This person would be allowed to travel freely throughout California, but not enter any state that forbids non US citizen's from entry.
The fact of the matter is, some states want to let them in and some don't. In California, state and local police are not allowed to even ask if you are an illegal alien.
Jeff Pruit:
It sounds like this is one we will have to disagree on...
I 100% agree with you that there were problems with the House Bill Souder voted against... There are problems with every house bill.
For example, would you vote in favor of an Emergency Military spending bill three years after the conflict started that was laden with pork? By your reasoning you would not. In fact, by your reasoning no one could vote FOR ANY BILL IN CONGRESS. They are all too large, too complicated, and have some stupid provisions in them...
You also state that our economy would collapse. I do not think so. It would take at least TEN YEARS to round them up and ship them out. Hopefully we would have our fence up by then and we would have encouraged some new and LEGAL immigration to occur.
California has one of the worst problems with both welfare and entitlement programs. We should also modify welfare and require poeple to work (GASP)...
There should not be a free lunch!
Mike Sylvester
I know of numerous businesses that are barely hanging on, and may eventually be replaced by foreign companies. But by employing illegal aliens as a part of their workforce, they are getting by. In doing so, they keep jobs in place for the rest of the (legal) workforce in the shop. There are certainly questions that come up about the morality of paying one group alot less. To the company, it is survival. To the immigrants, it is a way to survive, as a first generation in America, and to the legal co-workers it keeps their jobs alive.
Some would complain that it is racist to pay the immigrants less (often roughly half as much money for a motivated hardworking employee.) I don't know, but I like keeping the business alive. Often times they even give them health insurance.
Many areas of our economy would be in a tailspin without the cheap labor of illegal aliens. No question about it.
Further, there is little resolve in this country to "round 'em up" and "move 'em out." The public seems quite divided. When we are that divided about an issue, you can never accomplish a project as big as sealing the boarder and deporting 11,000,000 people.
Immigration and illegal aliens are an important issue. We are best served by talking about solutions that are within the realm of reality.
As a member of the law enforcement community and a very concerned US citizen, I feel that some action is not only necessary but very long over due. I hate to hear people say what can be done about it now there are 11 million of them. I agree that this country was founded and built by immigrants but for most of them it was done LEGALLY… We, Americans have a distorted perception of safety in our country; since we have the border patrol and Home Land Security we think that we are safe. But I am here to tell you it scares me to death when I hear about anyone just walking across our borders at will, unchecked and not searched. This is a problem people; and believe me the solution is going to ruffle a few feathers, but which would you rather have some ruffled feathers or 9/11 again.
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