Saturday, December 08, 2007

Open Thread Post: Presidetial Primary Edition!!!

Here's your chance to plug or denounce the presidential candidate of your choice, irregardless of party. Keep in mind that if Evan Bayh gets picked as a running mate, Indiana could become a swing state. The fate of this nation may hinge on a few Lake County absentee ballots getting lost in the mail, or even on someone stumbling on to this very blog! Come on, now is your chance to make history!

13 comments:

Kody Tinnel said...

Paul- Kucinich 2008

Hope for America AND Strength Through Peace

Robert Enders said...

They're both idealists, I'll give you that much. Care to elaborate, though?

gadfly said...

I thought that this was a thread about denouncing candidates. Kody has put two totally unacceptable candidates up for denouncing so let me start with Kucinich. Kody has not been around long enough to remember Cleveland's youngest mayor, but the city known as "the Mistake on the Lake" suffered greatly under his administration. From the book "The American Mayor" by Melvin Holli comes this enlightenment.

"Only thirty-one years old when elected, Cleveland's "boy mayor" had failings that were not the sins of venality or graft for personal gain, but rather matters of style, temperament, and bad judgment in office. Kucinich earned seventh place the hard way: by his abrasive, intemperate, and chaotic administration. He barely survived a recall vote just ten months in office, then disappeared for five weeks, reportedly recuperating from an ulcer. When he got back into the political fray, his demagogic rhetoric and slash-and-burn political style got him into serious trouble when he stubbornly refused to compromise and led Cleveland into financial default in late 1978 - the first major city to default since the Great Depression. That led also to Kucinich's defeat and exit from executive office. Out of office, he dabbled in a Hollywoodesque spirit world and once believed that he had met Shirley MacLaine in a previous life, seemingly confirming his critics' charges that he was a "nutcake." After that, he experienced downward mobility, losing races for several other offices and finally ending up with a council seat; but more recently, he climbed back up to a seat in Congress. Bad judgment, demagoguery, and default also spelled political failure in the eyes of twenty-five of our experts, who ranked Dennis, whom the press called "Dennis the Menace", as seventh-worst.

Kucinich was rated the seventh worst mayor in the US during the 1820 - 1993 time period. So if you cannot conquer Cleveland, what chance do you have as President?

Mike Kole said...

Well, it isn't only because I lived my first 35 years in Cleveland that I can remind all that Kucinich was punished for his poor performance as Mayor by election to Congress. So, sadly, Gadfly, I wouldn't dismiss out of hand the possibility that this myopic Stalinist dwarf could indeed be elected.

I lived in Kucinich's congressional district towards the end of my days in Cle, and had the opportunity to experience the man's office first hand. Not the man himself- he wouldn't allow anyone but a donor to get face time. I wrote a letter to him advising that I opposed his support of steel tariffs. Kucinich was pandering to the union vote in Cle, and the remains of the steel industry there. The office's response? A form letter that stressed that Kucinich *was voting with the president* on that issue. Translation? If you are opposing Dennis on this, it must be because you are a Republican, so let's tweak you against President Bush... that should shut you up. I wrote a detailed letter on the economics, as how the tariffs might temporarily help then-LTV steel, but would surely hurt the myriad other manufacturing businesses in Cle that use steel- GM, Ford, the several tool & die shops, machine shops, etc. The response? The same form letter.

When a struggling hospital decided to close its' doors because it was hemmoraging cash, Kucinich stepped in, to force them to keep it open! Before he showed his hand, Kucinich leafletted the neighborhood to have a town hall meeting on the fate of the hospital. I attended, planning to speak in defense of their right to close. Their asset, their decision. Well, it was a pep rally. A sham. All of the hospitals employees were brought in, to sit at the front of the auditorium. The smaller remaining section was reserved for neighborhood people, so I got a seat. Kucinich's lineup of intro speakers were all Democratic Party politicians, all of whom slammed the hospital for thinking it could go out of business. So, it was clear that this was no town hall meeting. This was a rally, mainly to boost Dennis Kucinich.

The man's reputation in Cleveland has long been this: "Dennis Kucinich would step on his grandmother's neck if he thought it would elevate him two inches closer to power".

The Paul-Kucinich ticket would have really only one thing in common: Iraq, and the interest in getting the troups out immediately. Beyond that, the two have almost no agreement.

Charlotte A. Weybright said...

Actually, it says "plug or denounce", so you can do either.

Robert Enders said...

Charlotte is correct. Next time I will say "plug or pan" so that I will have an alliteration.

Jon Olinger said...

George W. Bush/Dick Cheney

Bush back for a third term!!!!

Really... Hey..Come on it’s the constitution....it's a living document that can be changed when needed...right?

Charles M. Langley said...

I could get behind an Obama/Bayh ticket, but I would be extremely reluctant to support anything with Clinton in the general election.

Equally plausible, and I'll take the heat for it, but a Republican candidate other than Rudy with a Huckabee VP slot.

To be certain, I would not enjoy a Hillary and Rudy general election. Am I alone on that sentiment?

Kody Tinnel said...

Gadfly,

Perhaps I have not been around long enough to have actually experienced Kucinich as mayor, but as with all of the current Presidential candidates I have done extensive research on voting records, past experiences, etc.

While Kucinich may have made some mistakes as mayor a few decades back I believe his more recent voting record in Congress shows that if nothing else he uses common sense on most issues. Common sense is something that is lacking in most aspect of the American political system today.

Do I honestly think Kucinich has a real chance to make it to the general election? No.

There is a chance you may have missed the humor aspect of my post. I figured that by combining Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich in a single ticket people would understand that I was hardly going for a serious post, not that I am denoucning my support for either of those candidates.

I will also add that even if Kucinich was elected and did a bad job, it would still be an improvement from the Bush administration, which has essentially ruined the image of America for decades to come.

Tim Zank said...

KODY SEZ: "which has essentially ruined the image of America for decades to come." That is a statement based upon what you have heard, not what you have experienced. It's also ridiculous.

Kody, You should get a lot of slack because of your youth, but I can assure you, as an older dude, the image of the ugly american was around long before this administration ever showed up. And the image was conjured up by us, not THEM.

For those of us that honestly remember (not revisionist memories) the mid sixties through the mid seventies, it was very much the same, we were told that everyone hates America, we're imperialists, yada yada yada...

As for Presidential Candidates....

Thompson/Franks would be an interesting combo.

Kody Tinnel said...

Tim,

Perhaps my choice of words was misleading, or simply badly chosen.

What I meant by that comment was that even though this country has been on the decline in many aspects for a long, long time now, the current Presidential administration has done a lot to speed up that downward process.

Tim Zank said...

Kody, I think you'll find if you were to speak to normal everyday working folks in other countries, you'd find they don't harbor the animosity toward us we are led to believe.

Consider the source for YOUR interpretation for how OTHERS feel about us. Media & despots paint us as imperialists, tyrants, and evil incarnate. Do you honestly think the real people feel that way?

Common sense,logic and history offer us a much different interpretation. The rest of the world (while not perfect by any means) has a much higher standard of living than they could have ever dreamed had it not been for us. Airplanes, medicines, communications, the list of our contributions is endless.

The notion this country is going downhill is preposterous. Of course there are problems and debacles that's part of life. I find it troubling a bright young guy like yourself is so easily swayed by 2nd and 3rd hand opinions and would become a "glass is half empty" kind of guy.

You live in the greatest nation this earth has ever known, ever.
Look at the big picture, not the picture the politicians and the press paint for you. They have an agenda.

Kody Tinnel said...

Tim,

I respectfully disagree.

I do not get my views of this country from media sources who may or may not be out to tarnish the appearance of the United States. I simply look at facts, policies, and history.

Now dont get me wrong, I think the United States is still one of the greatest countries in the world, but like most other countries it does have serious problems.

The following is a list of things I believe contribute negatively to the United States and its image.

1) bad foreign policy in genereal
2) the war on drugs
3) the obesity epidemic
4) the national debt
5) the failing prison system
6) millions of people without health insurance
7) gay marriage debates
8) the dumbing down of entertainment and pop culture
9) corruption in all levels of government
10) corporate ownership of most media
11) education not properly funded in certain areas
12) environmental issues
13) mass overconsumption
14) and several more that seem to be slipping my mind at the moment

I will end this post with a quote by Bill Maher that seems to fit quite nicely into the discussion.

"I do think the patriotic thing to do is to critique my country. How else do you make a country better but by pointing out its flaws?" -Bill Maher